Achillesgirl I have long shared your irritation at the lack of subtitles in these situations. I went to hear David Bordwell speak this spring. I don't remember how the topic came up but he explained that many times only the audio was sent out to get subtitled, which could explain why sometimes they are out of sync with the action too I suppose, so of course they can't subtitle what they can't see. It doesn't really decrease my irritation while watching but at least I understand it a little bit better.
Bravo on your translation abilities and thanks for sharing. I don't think I have seen this one yet. Off to check Netflix ...
Thank you, friends. I didn't know if anyone would actually be interested.
Diana, it IS good to understand the process, and that's interesting about the audio. I have often wondered whether the script got sent out for subtitling because you know how sometimes a written line just appears when nobody has said, is saying, or will say, anything? It's as if the typist got drunk and started throwing in their own embellishes.
On the other hand... Most subtitling tends to prefer the "less is more" philosophy (i.e. it's cheap shit) but my copy of Korean flick "Public Enemy" has absolutely EVERYTHING subtitled: every sign, every clothing label, every bird flying overhead. They meant well but it was pretty overwhelming and funny! :)
Too much subtitling? I never thought there could be such a thing. I just added this to my Netflix queue, gotta see this.
I have noticed that newer films have better subtitling, perhaps they don't do this anymore, either by audio track or script? (I have wondered about this too) Still many signs are not translated. I can see where the sign may not be important to the story to whoever is subtitling but how do I know that if I don't know what it says?
It's from the shitty film "Killer's Nocturne". http://www.hkcinemagic.com/en/movie.asp?id=1944 The most famous thing about this shitty movie is the shitty kangaroo boxing match. Mr. Alex doesn't have a huge part but he looks great in a tux.
Exactly right about the lack of subtitles - how do we know what we're missing? Sometimes it IS important - signs and songs sometimes add irony/meaning. We can't think a film is very good if we can't see these things. When I stop and translate, I often see whole new levels of meaning that I previously didn't get at all. And that's a shame.
I've heard from several movie people that money is the main factor - hire the cheapest subtitler, screw everything else. They don't seem to realize that it ultimately hurts sales (and reputation) when the foreign audiences don't like the film. Derp!
Totally agree, on the importance of having everything translated to enhance the meaning and the fact that $$ is the factor--my mom would say they were penny-wise and pound-foolish. As I said, I think they are getting better at this but they still have a way to go and of course, that doesn't help with the older films anyway.
Killer's Nocturne, hmm. Is it worth a VCD purchase to see Dimple King in a tux? I shall consider this.
Worth is relative. I paid around $5 for the VCD, and that screencap has made it worth it. It's mostly Chin Siu Ho's film, and it's pretty flawed and dull but Alex looks pretty cool when he's around, and he plays an asshole so that's good.
I often wonder why Alex played bad guys or assholes so much. My fav role where he plays a good guy is a tvb series "Justice of Life." Rented it to see Stephen Chow in his early years but fell for the dimple king instead.
I've read that many actors don't want the bad guy image. Man Chi Leung is one courageous asshole - if the role demanded, he was willing to make himself really look bad. I'd cast him as a bad guy in a heart beat because he delivers very complex baddies.
He recently returned to TV - I'd love to see what he's up to now!
Colour me impressed Achillesgirl, great movie and I'll be rewatching soon with this extra translation.
ReplyDeleteAchillesgirl I have long shared your irritation at the lack of subtitles in these situations. I went to hear David Bordwell speak this spring. I don't remember how the topic came up but he explained that many times only the audio was sent out to get subtitled, which could explain why sometimes they are out of sync with the action too I suppose, so of course they can't subtitle what they can't see. It doesn't really decrease my irritation while watching but at least I understand it a little bit better.
ReplyDeleteBravo on your translation abilities and thanks for sharing. I don't think I have seen this one yet. Off to check Netflix ...
Achillesgirl is the boss.
ReplyDeleteThank you, friends. I didn't know if anyone would actually be interested.
ReplyDeleteDiana, it IS good to understand the process, and that's interesting about the audio. I have often wondered whether the script got sent out for subtitling because you know how sometimes a written line just appears when nobody has said, is saying, or will say, anything? It's as if the typist got drunk and started throwing in their own embellishes.
On the other hand... Most subtitling tends to prefer the "less is more" philosophy (i.e. it's cheap shit) but my copy of Korean flick "Public Enemy" has absolutely EVERYTHING subtitled: every sign, every clothing label, every bird flying overhead. They meant well but it was pretty overwhelming and funny! :)
Too much subtitling? I never thought there could be such a thing. I just added this to my Netflix queue, gotta see this.
ReplyDeleteI have noticed that newer films have better subtitling, perhaps they don't do this anymore, either by audio track or script? (I have wondered about this too) Still many signs are not translated. I can see where the sign may not be important to the story to whoever is subtitling but how do I know that if I don't know what it says?
BTW what film is that screencap of my dimple king from? I want to take him up on his invitation, lol
ReplyDeleteIt's from the shitty film "Killer's Nocturne". http://www.hkcinemagic.com/en/movie.asp?id=1944 The most famous thing about this shitty movie is the shitty kangaroo boxing match. Mr. Alex doesn't have a huge part but he looks great in a tux.
ReplyDeleteExactly right about the lack of subtitles - how do we know what we're missing? Sometimes it IS important - signs and songs sometimes add irony/meaning. We can't think a film is very good if we can't see these things. When I stop and translate, I often see whole new levels of meaning that I previously didn't get at all. And that's a shame.
I've heard from several movie people that money is the main factor - hire the cheapest subtitler, screw everything else. They don't seem to realize that it ultimately hurts sales (and reputation) when the foreign audiences don't like the film. Derp!
Totally agree, on the importance of having everything translated to enhance the meaning and the fact that $$ is the factor--my mom would say they were penny-wise and pound-foolish. As I said, I think they are getting better at this but they still have a way to go and of course, that doesn't help with the older films anyway.
ReplyDeleteKiller's Nocturne, hmm. Is it worth a VCD purchase to see Dimple King in a tux? I shall consider this.
Worth is relative. I paid around $5 for the VCD, and that screencap has made it worth it. It's mostly Chin Siu Ho's film, and it's pretty flawed and dull but Alex looks pretty cool when he's around, and he plays an asshole so that's good.
ReplyDeleteI often wonder why Alex played bad guys or assholes so much. My fav role where he plays a good guy is a tvb series "Justice of Life." Rented it to see Stephen Chow in his early years but fell for the dimple king instead.
ReplyDeleteI've read that many actors don't want the bad guy image. Man Chi Leung is one courageous asshole - if the role demanded, he was willing to make himself really look bad. I'd cast him as a bad guy in a heart beat because he delivers very complex baddies.
ReplyDeleteHe recently returned to TV - I'd love to see what he's up to now!